The only rifles I can find in production are from Nosler, Remington and CVA. I have one, and I like it a lot. Both the Legend and the .30-30 are most comfortable in the medium-to-large-game category, but the .30-30 offers a slightly wider array of bullet weights and applications. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. Overall, the .30 Carbine is a round that is historically important, but not terribly ballistically relevant to the modern discussion of personal defense weapon ammunition. 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. Due in large part to the limited utility of those cartridge,the Model 1905 was not a major commercial success. Mag. 30 Carbine 22 HRN390562 7 LEE90524 19 LY7738060 17 RCBS09217 22 RED11022 30 Gibbs 1 HRN390541 2 LEE90519 2 LY7738041 3 RCBS09203 1 RED11001 30 Herrett 2 HRN390542 3 LEE90520 6 LY7738045 2 RCBS09202 2 RED11002 . hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. The record contains a few examples of carbine-aimed fire felling an enemy soldier at this distance or perhaps a little more. It seems to me that this would be a good time to bring back these cartridges in a modern semi auto or compact bolt action rifle. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. They would probably still be around today. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? The .35 Rem. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. Shootability The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. That higher BC allows the .30-30 to maintain a flatter trajectory and buck the wind more effectively. I think that the semi auto rifles were ahead of their time Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. WITH BAYONET. While similar to the M1 carbine, it lacked the stock, thereby making it a handgun. It was even used in Africa. 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He became convinced that faster, flatter-shooting cartridges would take game more reliably, and the resulting line of Weatherby Magnum cartridges has been doing just that since he founded Weatherby in 1945. Even so, the Model 1903 rifle was fairly popular and sold approximately 120,000 examples over a production life of 33 years. I have been able to get one of each of the calibers ( models) and without too much trouble or expense. It went through 1,232 rounds without incident. Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! As commercially successful as the Winchester Model 1907 and the .351 Winchester Self-Loading were, Winchester was still not quite satisfied. Normal jacketed bullet weight was 180 grains and factory ballistics had it moving at about 1,800 fps. Nominally they weighed 180 grains, were usually jacketed softpoints and were propelled from the 20-inch barrel of the Model 1907 at about 1,800 fps. Unfortunately, finding .401 or .351 Winchester ammo is also pretty difficult as well, though its still possible to find the odd box of factory ammunition and the necessary reloading supplies from places like Buffalo Arms. Winchester also produced a load firing a 250 grain bullet at 1,870 feet per second (1,942 ft-lbs of energy). Still, the .30 Carbine is a round that has taken considerable criticism for its lack of performance, so its worthwhile to take a look at exactly how it does in comparison to other rounds used for the same purpose: Here we see pretty much exactly what wed expect: A round that starts out quite admirably thanks to its goodvelocity and energy, but which tends to underperform at range due to its dumpy ballistic coefficient. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguablythe first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. This listing is for ONE Magazine. The .30 Carbine is so weird in part because its descended from an innovative and influential but little-known family of rounds developed by Winchester in the early 1900s. Kahr makes the M1 Carbine but they are priced as high a original which i would hold out for if i was in the market for one . It can be found, and reloading it should not be a problem. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps, and the muzzle energy 1370 ft.-lbs. Army Ordnance Major Rene Studler persuaded Winchester that the Winchester M2 .30-06 rifle, a design started by Ed Browning and perfected by Winchester engineers including Marshall "Carbine" Williams, could be scaled down for the .30 Carbine cartridge. Many have complained about the cartridges themselves saying that they were way under powered and useless and only good for squirrels to coyotes, they must be talking about the 22LR. Still, the mild working characteristics of the .30 SL allowed the design of a very lightweight and simple gun, in a similar fashion to how the blowback-friendly .32 and .380 ACP rounds allowed the Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT to be much smaller and lighter than their blowback counterparts. Auction (19) As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. *We Never share your email without your permission. . The Legend could certainly bring down an elk, but possible is not the same as ideal. If youre looking for a do-it-all cartridge, the .30-30 will likely serve you better. With these requirements in hand, Winchester's Edwin Pugsley chose to design the cartridge with a .30 caliber, 100120 grain bullet at a velocity of 2,000 feet per second (610m/s). Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. features a Weaver K 2.5 scope. I spent it all on guns and ammo. Area Code: 715. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. GI#: 102196509. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. And I thought .348 Win was tough to find. I have a 32 sl, 2 x 35 sl,351 and a 401. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. The Ruger Blackhawk revolver chambered for the .30 Carbine round has been in the catalogs since the late 1960s. . I would like some information if possible on approximate value if in good usable condition. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. Since the sights on Model 1907's consisted of a blade front with open rear, its practical range was about 150 yards. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. In some ways, the United States military decided this Caliber Battle in 1957. Its a good time to own a rifle chambered in the .350. By experience, they would come to handle it semiautomatically, but it took prolonged battle hardening to bring about this adjustment in the human equation. In 1944, Smith & Wesson developed a hand-ejector revolver to fire .30 Carbine. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. MADE IN 1933. Specifically, they had a significant problem developing a caliber powerful enough to be suitable for big game, yet usable in the 1903 type blowback autoloading action. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. This is an Oviedo 1918 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. The .351 WSL actually used .351-inch bullets. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. from my E.R. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. Still, much like the old man who can rattle your teeth with a punch, appearances can be deceiving. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. There are a few problems with this answer. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. The .351 is a great urban defense cartridge, but ammo supplies are extremely limited, and so is magazine capacity. In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. We determine a cartridges shootability by considering its cost, availability, and recoil energy. The .223's 200 yard energy is given as 603 ft. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . But these arent normal times. . On some collecting sites, prices range around $100.00 box of 50, but earlier pristine condition boxes and with ammo go much higher. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. Perhaps thats why it has survived. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). As the winner of two out of three categories, the .30-30 Winchester deserves the overall nod. I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. It feels like you get an initial kick when the gun goes off, which is then followed immediately by even harder hit when the heavy movable actions parts slam to the rear of the rifle. Yes. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. After two years of development, Winchester did beat Remington to market with the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. As of 2017, Hawk bullets still makes .351 jacketed expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness.[7]. 26" Barrel. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. Neither cartridge produces stiff recoil. This 180-grain load from Federal drops 9.4 inches at 200 yards and 34.1 inches at 300 yards. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. WINCHESTER 1907 351. Winchester Model 74 semi auto .22 short. These are a fun gun to have , shoot and collect. That suggests the difference, at least in part, is due to the bullet. Classified Ad (1000+), Search Full Text of Listings Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Reply. The first trigger housing used with an M1 Carbine was a modified Winchester M1907 trigger housing used in Winchester's first prototype submission to the Ordnance "light rifle" trials in August 1941. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. The 32 WSL fired a 165 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 32-40 ballistics, the 32-40 was considered good for deer. This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. Paul explains the differences between the Winchester and Marlin .30-30 lever action rifles.Paul's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=5769301 This video . The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Two absolutely worthless cartridges, 30 cal M-1 carbine and the .351 have provided the insightful highway for some decent rounds. Paul tests 357 magnum against 30 carbine out of a couple revolvers.Shirts and patches: https://www.tristartrading.com/collections/paul-harrell-official-store. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber ( 7.62 mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. .351 s.l. Weight-wise, the .30 Carbine is also a bit of a disappointment, clocking in at 12.70 grams per round of M2 .30 Carbine Ball ammunition, heavierthan the far more capable 5.5645. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. If youd like to read some of the other posts my father has written for this blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, 405 Winchester: Roosevelts Medicine Gun For Lions. As of this writing, five of Midways .350 Legend options are in stock while the company reports having zero .30-30 cartridges available. Another comparison is a .357 Magnum cartridge fired from an 18" rifle barrel, which has a muzzle velocity range from about 1,7182,092ft/s (524638m/s) with energies at 7201,215ftlbf (9761,647J) for a 110gr (7.1g) bullet at the low end and a 125gr (8.1g) bullet on the high end.[11]. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. Seller: cma959. Just bought the 22 sl. Mag. And with Winchester, Ruger, Mossberg and other companies making bolt action rifle in 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster, maybe they could make a run of rifles in 351 WSL and 401 WSL too., with 5 and 10 round magazines. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. I had Clay at prophet river in Alberta bring in 22 ;auto ammo for my 1903 22sl, they work good and are a run that Aquila runs once a year I believe, I ended up buying at least 800 or more rounds. They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. 98% OVERALL. Wish I could find the article. The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. The .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington won't break any speed recordsthere's no doubt about that. and .32 Rem. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been.

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